transcript of the live chat session regarding , Jenny Holzer's project on äda 'web. these conversations took place on tuesday, may 23rd,
1995 in the auditorium of club hotwired.
jfsjr: Do you watch TV a lot?
Jenny Holzer: Sure, honey.
kjean: Your work seems to allow itself only to be internalized by the reader, as opposed
to allowing the reader to become judgemental of others. Was the discovery of this direct
line to the psyche accidental or by design?
Jenny Holzer: Sorry, kjean. The answer is both. I was lucky.
oksksko: Artists all have influential persons in their developmental stages. Who do you
consider to be among those people who have shaped your particular point of view?
Jenny Holzer: My grandmother, because she saved me from my grandfather. After
that, Nancy Spero and Louise Bourgeois.
Jenny Holzer: Here's some more STUFF; kreth/"c" is for cookie: go, go!
DESTROY SUPERABUNDANCE. STARVE THE FLESH, SHAVE THE HAIR, EXPOSE THE BONE,
CLARIFY THE MIND, DEFINETHE WILL, RESTRAIN THE SENSES, LEAVE THE FAMILY, FLEE
THE CHURCH, KILL THE VERMIN, VOMIT THE HEART, FORGET THE DEAD. LIMIT TIME,
FORGO AMUSEMENT, DENY NATURE, REJECT ACQUAINTANCES, DISCARD OBJECTS, FOR
TRUTHS, DISSECT MYTH, STOP MOTION, BLOCK IMPULSE, CHOKE SOBS, SWALLOW CHATTER.
SCORN JOY,
Jenny Holzer: For reasons that have to do with my newness at this, parts of the texts have been cut out and oddly spaced in the process of transference. Oh well.
minettem: What filmmakers have you been influenced by? do you want to work in film?
Jenny Holzer: I would have liked to have been Kurosawa.
shivathecat: Of all the mediums you've worked with, which worked the best for you?
Jenny Holzer: I'm most fond of the street posters, but I like when people come back at
me thru the computer.
jfsjr: I know you produce objects for sale that on which you print your truisms. How do
you choose those objects for instance the golf balls?
Jenny Holzer: The golf balls are gifts to
Jenny Holzer: Sorry - the golf balls are gifts to my dead father.
scamp/Susanna Camp: Jenny, I forgot to mention about the lag :( Sorry!)
mosco: Jenny, could you tell us something that you truly believe is absolute?
Jenny Holzer: The unanswerable.
minettem: What do you have in common with Kurosawa? Epic scope?
Jenny Holzer: Nothing, that's why I would like to BE him.
minettem: Why Spero...how did she influence you? The use of repetition?
Jenny Holzer: Her insistence on women's bodies as appropriate subject matter.
hymen: I still do not understand. Are you crying out, trying to effect a change or is it
just art for art's sake?
Jenny Holzer: I hope there is a chance for change and there's nothing wrong with art for
arts' sake.
ari: Besides the web site, what other pieces are you currently working on?
Jenny Holzer: I'm doing a "black garden" in Germany that is an anti-memorial. All the
plants in it are black or very dark red. There are terrible texts on garden benches.
mosco: Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Jenny Holzer: Yes.
sean: Do you create your works with a particular meaning in mind, or is the viewer
supposed to create their own?
Jenny Holzer: I imagine that people complete the work. Sometimes the work
completes itself. Sometimes I know what I'm doing from the beginning.
jfsjr: Of all the submissions you've gotten so far to your WWW site, do any stand out as
your favorites?
Jenny Holzer: I think fully fifty percent of them are better than the originals. If there's
time, I'll go look at them and tell you privately.
minettem: Have you installed any of your own pieces in your home? If so, where? and
what other artist's work do you have in your home?
Jenny Holzer: There's only one of my things in the house and it seems appropriate
tonight. It begins, "Die fast and quiet when they interrogate you, or live so long that
they are ashamed to hurt you anymore."
ari: What impact have the recent attacks by the right on political art had and what will the
impact be if NEA funding is drastically cut or zeroed out?
Jenny Holzer: It's embarrassing to be in a country that thinks the arts are the problem.
kjean: Sometimes it seems you are insistent on the idea that human nature is, at its core, pure (ex: "YOU ARE GUILELESS IN YOUR DREAMS"). Is this something you believe, think about, study, etc.?
Jenny Holzer: Ususally people ask if i am certain that things and people are hopeless.
I'm pleased that you found a lovely one. It's reassuring to me somehow.
handi: Since most of your work over the last few years has been reinstitutionalized (ie put into museums and collected by fine art elitists), do you have any plans to disseminate your messages to more mainstream and less marquee valued venues?
Jenny Holzer: The public work continues and remains my primary interest.
mosco: In the Web series you parsed the Truisms down - how did you pick them?
Jenny Holzer: I didn't.
kjean: You mentioned you were influenced by Spero because of her "insistence on
womens' bodies as appropriate subject matter." I'm not familiar with her work, and am
curious about how this relates, in your mind, to feminism.
Jenny Holzer: Spero has always focused on women, on crimes against them, and achievements by them.
minettem: Do you ever think about writing more narratively?
Jenny Holzer: I can't sustain a thought long enough.
Jenny Holzer: Here's a recent & appreciated submission from my project on äda 'web:
A SLOW DESCENT INTO MADNESS IS PREFERABLE TO ENDLESS UNHAPPINESS
scamp: How much self-promotion do you have to do? Do you ever feel conflicted about that? How do you get out information about Please Change Beliefs?
Jenny Holze
r: I'm better off laying low.
kjean: Do you try to live by most/any of your truisms?
Jenny Holzer: I live them all. To write them I had to imagine them.
ari: were the quicktime movies and audio recordings created specifically for the web site?
Jenny Holzer: No, but we've fooled with them specifically for the web site.
mosco: Are you interested in the work of younger artists like, let's say, mathhew
barney?
Jenny Holzer: Yes, I like his videos especially.
minettem: Do you have any plans for teaching?
Jenny Holzer: I like to lecture and answer questions afterwards once i get over my stage fright.
hymen: Do you hear the birds sing in the morning? Do you enjoy watching the sun rise in glory? Have you ever written anything of an extremely positive nature?
Jenny Holzer: Occasionally, to my amazement.
toosmall: Could you tell us some of the text in germany garden?
Jenny Holzer: The text sprang from the sentence, "I am awake in the place where
women die."
drew: Does she have anything short enough I can put on a liscence plate? I would love to share a truism with everyone I share the highway with.
Jenny Holzer: How about "The future is stupid" - sas vowels?
scamp/Susanna Camp: LOL, Jenny.
Jenny Holzer: We have to go in a few minutes, so if there's anything else you want to let me know, let me know now.
scamp/Susanna Camp: Can you text-bomb us again before you leave?
kjean: Have you found it difficult to make the leap from imagining to action?
Jenny Holzer: Always. I also can't imagine many of the actions I see.
scamp/Susanna Camp: I mean that in a good way, it transforms the whole space here.
bemorgan/morgan: Ah ... transforming the space. That's a wonderful euphamism for a text bomb.
scamp/Susanna Camp: Jenny Holzer's project is at
http://www.adaweb.com/project/index.shtml
Jenny Holzer: We'd like to send some more text, but the computer doesn't want to.
jfsjr/jfsjr: ABUSE OF FLOWERS COMES AS NO SURPRISE
mosco: is that sentence from your lustmord series?
Jenny Holzer: Yes - I'm impressed.
scamp/Susanna Camp: Thanks Jenny, a lot of "questions" are coming in, people expressing appreciation. Final thoughts?
minettem: there's a kitchen cleanser TV commercial running now...with a very Holzer likerr-like LED screen..any comment?
Jenny Holzer: I'm pleased to make kitchens cleaner. Thank you and good night!
OTHER CONVERSATION blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
ari/public display: I think that was a truism submitted by someone to the web site
jfsjr/jfsjr: has anyone been to the web site?
zano/zano: thank you shushmeister
snw/shushmeister: Now shush. what's it like
zano/zano: haha
jfsjr/jfsjr: what's it like
ari/public display: yep
coon/cowboy: Hello
snw/shushmeister: Hello again.
ari/public display: There are three sections
do you understand what the sections
jfsjr/jfsjr: what are the three sections can you explain them?
ari/public display: one has a bunch of her work: truisms, survival series, living,
lamentations, some with qucktime movies or audio recordings
ari/public display: the second has some truisms you can alter or you can just make up
your own, the last allows you to vote on the trusisms you believe in
jfsjr/jfsjr: It sounds really great, ari.....how do i get there?
ari/public display: the one with the most votes was abuse of power comes as
no surprise with about 53.
jfsjr/jfsjr: That comes as no surprise!
ari/public display: the least was romantic love was created to manipulate women with 3
jfsjr/jfsjr: I heard there were some video clips....is that true?
ari/public display: yeah, there are a number of quicktime videos. I think they are based on
some spots she did for MTV
ari/public display: There are also some readings of lamentations which may have been
taken from the video on the Dia installation
jfsjr/jfsjr: Did you work on the site, ari? or just a fan?....where are you?
ari/public display: I'm in San Francisco
caleb/caleb: ari: do you write aphorisms of your own?
ari/public display: I studied her in college (at the u of Illinois) and then saw a lot of her
work when I lived in NYC from 89 - 91
ari/public display: I've done some sticker art with definitions. ari/public display: and some
public poster art
caleb/caleb: I thought so, ari.... We thought that beauty was enough... we were, of cour,
wong -- is that one of yours?
caleb/caleb: ANTHROPOMORPHISM IS A FRIGHTENED KIND OF EGOTISM
ari/public display: nope. I did all of this stuff when I was in college. Some of it may still be
on a bench in urbana
caleb/caleb: "the computer doesn' want to"
caleb/caleb: hmmm, nevermind, ari... thanks.
CONVERSATIONS AFTER
jfsjr/jfsjr: wow - that was great!
ari/public display: she was better than Tom Brokaw on AOL earlier today, but a little bit
more elaboration would have been good
zano/zano: quit
snw/shushmeister: You know it's a decent club wired when we don't have to resort to the
boxers or briefs question.
bemorgan/morgan: Techno ... type /a for who, /? or /+ for help with commands.
technoblonde/technoblonde: thanks
caleb/caleb: hey, snw, I invented that question! I think it says a lot about a person....
snw/shushmeister: Yeah, like what kind of underwear they wear for instance.
caleb/caleb: like that, for instance....
bemorgan/morgan: Or at least a lot about that person's underwear.
ari/public display: Some people have cited that ? to clinton as an example of the decline
of public discourse
snw/shushmeister: I think it's just an example of how sexy young americans find clinton.
or not.
technoblonde/technoblonde: darn few of us left
snw/shushmeister: Time for us hotwiredlings to go back to typing in our other windows...
handi/thimk: byeeeeeee
bemorgan/morgan: Aw ... have to go back inside now, eh? Can't stay and play?
technoblonde/technoblonde: club time here
bemorgan/morgan: Well ... I don't know that much about modern art ... I do know that her
web site just didn't impress me.
fatherfeta/I know who shot Mr. Burns
ari/public display: why not?
cayla/somebody hates me
bemorgan/morgan: There wasn't anything in it that caught me. Nothing that moved me
emotionally. As a think-piece, I suppose it works.
ari/public display: The opening screen shows how her art originally looked - the posters
all over soho
caleb/caleb: yeah, it's different on the Web, where you're used to reading quikly stuff like
that...
ari/public display: The lamentations piece was very moving at dia
bemorgan/morgan: Well, the web's a different medium, with different qualities.
ari/public display: they were carved on stone coffins and there was a totally dark room
with vertical led displays
bemorgan/morgan: That would be impressive in and of itself.
ari/public display: You might be alble to find catalogs with pictures of her public
installations at a good library
ari/public display: She's had her work on the electronic sign at times square, on signs in
Vegas and in Sports stadiums
cayla/somebody hates me
ari/public display: she was the first woman to represent the us at the Venice Binenale
and won the prize that year
bemorgan/morgan: Well ... her work seems to garner some respect.
caleb/caleb: I like her work, ari, but I find myself being disappointed that she hasn't done
more different stuff, moved on... i get numb to all the aphorisms after a time, and I find
myself nodding along.....
ari/public display: It would have been good to have some other example of her work on
the web site besides the unreadable poster for people who aren't familiar with her work
ari/public display: her work has developed, but all of the series are often
grouped together, so the newer stuff isn't as well known
ari/public display: she did a series on being a mother, lamentations was
about AIDS and she did a VR piece on rape in bosnia
ari/public display: well, I should get back to writing. nice talking to you
all
bemorgan/morgan: so ... the WWW site is a repurposed version of some
previous work?
caleb/caleb: bye ari, thanks
bemorgan/morgan: peace, ari.
kwarwick/{{In Stereo Where Available}}: hey!
bemorgan/morgan: Hi Karl.
kwarwick/{{In Stereo Where Available}}: morgan, caleb!
ari/public display: yeah, it is from five or six of her previous series
caleb/caleb: Yeah, morgan, I think the WWW stuff is all old stuff form other
places.... pity, really.
caleb/caleb: hey kwar
bemorgan/morgan: Hmmm. It doesn't seem to explore WWW as a medium. There
is some interactivity, but not much else ...
kwarwick/{{In Stereo Where Available}}: pretty quiet here!
ari/public display: Some sutff lke the future is stupid does take on a new
meaning on the web, but it would have been good to do a new series on
technolody
bemorgan/morgan: Not being familiar with her earlier work makes it difficult
to place the WWW site into a context.
ari/public display: Yeah, it would have been good ot have more backgroung
info. There is a link for mthe club wired page to an interview in wired
about her VR pieces
bemorgan/morgan: I'm tired of talking about an artist whose work I really
haven't seen ... on to something else?
bemorgan/morgan: Hi coon.
coon/cowboy: how are ya?
bemorgan/morgan: I'm better. In almost every way.
caleb/caleb: wow, there are really few people here....
bemorgan/morgan: It dropped off after our artist left.
coon/cowboy: Where are you from Morgan?
bemorgan/morgan: Milwaukee ... and yourself?
coon/cowboy: Texas
bemorgan/morgan: Still waiting for that logic board, caleb? (of course you
are ...)
coon/cowboy: Where did everybody go?
bemorgan/morgan: Some people have lives, apparently.
coon/cowboy: Oh
bemorgan/morgan: Aphorisms as art?
coon/cowboy: What is an Aphorism?????
bemorgan/morgan: Marshall McLuhan made a career out of it ...
bemorgan/morgan: A 'saying,' a 'truism.'
coon/cowboy: Otay
bemorgan/morgan: God, I wish McLuhan was alive today.